Curse

RedNova88 · Feb 09, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

This is generally why I don't participate in these kinds of events... Someone always finds a way to exploit or grief and take fun away from others. Oh well the irony of this is that most people would probably show disrespect towards these individuals for wasting their time and ruining the experience for others.

I don't see anything wrong with achieving goals like beating the top score but to do such things as mentioned puts this person/s below the line of pathetic. And this is coming from someone who doesn't even care about RBR

My two cents /rant mode OFF :P

slowerpoke · Feb 09, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

lets be honest, if it was down to pure luck, ie what powerups appear, then the top 10 would be full of different names.

Kusandaa · Feb 09, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Yeah, I wouldn't sell it myself. I'm some sort of collector with these, I buy the ones I like and sell the doubles I get.

But yeah... IMHO, having 2 guys having 25 positions each or something, kinda seems unfair. Doesn't affect me really, since I'm not even going to bother racing (got boring REALLY quickly for me last time), but still sucks for the other people trying to get one the "legit" way, if I could say so.

roflcopter ownage · Feb 09, 2008, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

It is possible to get up to 482k points with ONLY 1 ECHO and 1 super rollerbeetle. My 2 high scores of 481k were just that. I'm not sure how they get so many high scores though, that's pretty good consistency of getting SRB's, and especially considering you can't /resign or X out anymore cuz of dishonor points.

Ya, i was wondering how ouja and yuri got so many scores. It could be just really good luck, but they could have found soemthign different to do.

Cacheelma · Feb 09, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Agreed. There is something fishy about this.

Unfortunately Anet is unlikely to fix this problem THIS YEAR.

MercenaryKnight · Feb 09, 2008, 05:59 AM // 05:59

So, does anyone know if they will actually look at the unranked on the 100 list after they make sure only 1 person's score counts?

You can't see me · Feb 09, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by roflcopter ownage

Ya, i was wondering how ouja and yuri got so many scores. It could be just really good luck, but they could have found soemthign different to do.

Luck is probably half of it, the other half being under handed methods, since we all race them same track and one person is bound to get lucky as much as the next. Synch-leaving would probably be the prime choice.

Fact is, no one really cares enough about it enough to figure out what these two are doing. If it mattered, there would be a lot more QQing. I mean, a lot more.

MercenaryKnight · Feb 09, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Well off of pure luck from getting multiple super roller beetles (after a few knockdowns near beginning) I got like 4 near the end where you spiral across 2 bridges, as well as in the water before the second to last check point.

167k something, but considering you need 170k+ to be on 100 board (dunno if I may get something if they take off all the duplicates and see other people who would normally be on there).

UnKn0wN415 · Feb 09, 2008, 06:47 AM // 06:47

after playing just to get some lunar token finally gotten a lag free game with no KD and 2 SRB and the best I gotten was 460...forgot both came from the 1st and 2nd box...

if hacking a client like what people did on DoA I think it might be possible for someone to so something similar to this...

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Several points:

1) In the most recent rollerbeetle events, most of the high scores get posted in the first 6-8 hours. This happens because for the first few hours other players are just plain bad (permitting clean starts) and because lag problems are relatively minor since not everyone and his brother is afk-ing Nine Rings yet. Lag owns beetle players chasing good times; rubber banding is fail.

2) The conspiracy theories are just plain wrong. Explain to me how you get six people to sync join a match 20+ times so that Yuris Sayuri could have had all those top 100 times in the first three hours. You can't. There's absolutely no way to sync that many people in to anything consistently.

The people that appear on the list multiple times are there because they know HOW to do everything that's necessary to consistently post times. This involves running the same fast line every time and defending against knockdown and disruption properly.

3) Obs mode would be a terrible idea. You'd then get a million people doing exactly the same things, and top times would come down to who has the lowest latency rather than skill. Explain to me how that would not fail.

Do what good players have done. Watch other good players. Experiment and try different stuff. Anticipate what the other players around you will do and defend properly.

4) The luck factor: You can't post a good time without lucky powerups. That said, Yuris's method is more consistent than mine, which is why he has all those times in the top 100 at present.

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnKn0wN415

after playing just to get some lunar token finally gotten a lag free game with no KD and 2 SRB and the best I gotten was 460...forgot both came from the 1st and 2nd box...

You're not timing your speed buffs right. Plain and simple. Just because you don't understand how to do it doesn't mean it requires cheating to accomplish it.

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by roflcopter ownage

Ya, i was wondering how ouja and yuri got so many scores. It could be just really good luck, but they could have found soemthign different to do.

Yuris has a different method. I've seen him do it, and it's insane. (At the end of one of the prior beetle events, anyone that stayed out there could continue to play, so I literally raced against him for hours.)

Long and the short of it: he avoids water like the plague (including the water boxes) and spaces the speed buffs out VERY differently. He lags way behind at the beginning (saves Ram AND Dash out of the gate) and never uses the Ram/Dash method. Speed buffs are spaced way, way out. This returns very consistent 468+ times, and can post 480 if he gets lucky and catches an echo and a super from the two boxes he hits. EDIT: either a super or an echo from either box will post a top 100 time at present using that method. Personally, I'm not using it, because I'm swinging for the fences and the Holy Grail 484+ run.

I played with Ouija once earlier, and he appeared to be doing something similar but not identical.

I wonder where Ekelon is finding the extra two seconds with just an echo and a super? I was pretty certain from testing that 480-481 was the theoretical max on that, and that you'd need at least an echo from the box between checkpoints 4-5 to improve. Of course, I'm on DSL and that may well explain it. Pinging 175 when I'm not lagging is pretty fail.

Fox Reeveheart · Feb 09, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Several points:

1) In the most recent rollerbeetle events, most of the high scores get posted in the first 6-8 hours. This happens because for the first few hours other players are just plain bad (permitting clean starts) and because lag problems are relatively minor since not everyone and his brother is afk-ing Nine Rings yet. Lag owns beetle players chasing good times; rubber banding is fail.

2) The conspiracy theories are just plain wrong. Explain to me how you get six people to sync join a match 20+ times so that Yuris Sayuri could have had all those top 100 times in the first three hours. You can't. There's absolutely no way to sync that many people in to anything consistently.

The people that appear on the list multiple times are there because they know HOW to do everything that's necessary to consistently post times. This involves running the same fast line every time and defending against knockdown and disruption properly.

3) Obs mode would be a terrible idea. You'd then get a million people doing exactly the same things, and top times would come down to who has the lowest latency rather than skill. Explain to me how that would not fail.

Do what good players have done. Watch other good players. Experiment and try different stuff. Anticipate what the other players around you will do and defend properly.

4) The luck factor: You can't post a good time without lucky powerups. That said, Yuris's method is more consistent than mine, which is why he has all those times in the top 100 at present.

But with obs mode we CAN watch good players.

Raiku · Feb 09, 2008, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Several points:
The people that appear on the list multiple times are there because they know HOW to do everything that's necessary to consistently post times. This involves running the same fast line every time and defending against knockdown and disruption properly.

Yea...... something is terribly wrong here.

Ancient Menace · Feb 09, 2008, 07:25 AM // 07:25

First you say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

3) Obs mode would be a terrible idea. You'd then get a million people doing exactly the same things, and top times would come down to who has the lowest latency rather than skill. Explain to me how that would not fail.

but then you go on to say:

Quote:

Do what good players have done. Watch other good players. Experiment and try different stuff. Anticipate what the other players around you will do and defend properly.

So observer mode would be bad because people could watch and copy good players... but it's a good idea to watch and copy good players? So which is it?

But yeah, totally I get what you're saying. If somebody watches somebody else do an action then they must inherently be able to mimic that action. In fact, I watched all these juggling videos on Youtube and suddenly I'm like a juggling master.

Seriously man, this isn't the matrix. We can't download omgwtf roflcopter or whatever the #1 guy is right now just by watching him. And correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not a lot of options in a pathed race. Blow boxes, press skillz, go to finish line. Oh man stop copying me!

Also, I wanted to congratulate you on being the 7 millionth tool to use the word fail! Congratulations, we all knew you could do it.

Navaros · Feb 09, 2008, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

3) Obs mode would be a terrible idea. You'd then get a million people doing exactly the same things, and top times would come down to who has the lowest latency rather than skill. Explain to me how that would not fail.

The very fact that what the good players do could be copied simply by observing them, proves without any doubt that what they do is not really "skill". Their skill boils down to memorization, and knowing exactly what to do at every point on the track based off of memorization. And also, having had the luxury to have been told/figured out on their own on exactly what to do and when to do it (this is the one and only "skill-requiring" aspect of the whole thing, but that's not actually racing gameplay skill).

Anyhow, those who have figured that out are already just doing the same exact things as each other. No harm in destroying their "eliteness" of having this knowhow by opening it up to everyone else who hasn't yet figured it out via Obs Mode so that they can do the same thing. Figuring out how to do the race map in "the most perfectly exploitative way possible" is not a "respectable secret" that is worthy to be kept to a few "elite" players.

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiku

Yea...... something is terribly wrong here.

Sure, I post 450's if I don't get chain KD spammed and I don't combo Echo/SRB early on. 440 isn't an abnormal score if that's your method of posting scores.

You fail to appreciate how effective two Supers are in the hands of someone who knows how to use speed buffs.

Raiku · Feb 09, 2008, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Sure, I post 450's if I don't get chain KD spammed and I don't combo Echo/SRB early on. 440 isn't an abnormal score if that's your method of posting scores.

You fail to appreciate how effective two Supers are in the hands of someone who knows how to use speed buffs.

No, look who I am playing with. You fail to see?

Feathermoore Rep · Feb 09, 2008, 07:47 AM // 07:47

I figured there was something I wasn't doing quite right. The KDs are killer on any run, but considering KD free and no SRB I'd probably only consistenly post around the 450k mark, I guess I need to look harder into shaving off some time on my runs. And there are a few ways I know to shave some time so i guess ill go back and make some changes.

Guess it looks i overlooked the speed restriction on the water and got to caught up with getting echo+srb. :-p

Martin Alvito · Feb 09, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Menace

First you say:
But yeah, totally I get what you're saying. If somebody watches somebody else do an action then they must inherently be able to mimic that action. In fact, I watched all these juggling videos on Youtube and suddenly I'm like a juggling master.

1) You don't need to have an obs mode to see what good players are doing. Being able to watch a perfect run from start to finish is asking for WAY too much. However, you can see everything you need to see to reverse engineer how to post 470k+ just by being in the same run with someone good that gets an echo and an SRB early.

2) It's not like this stuff is hard. Juggling is considerably harder, but in either case you have to practice. But think this through for a second. This is a racing game. If an optimal line exists, and everyone knows about it, then everyone attempts to play it. If you've played rollerbeetle for any length of time, you know that touching other beetles is BAD, as it results in desynch for one or both players. This is why I say that outcomes would be determined solely by who has the lowest latency.

Even worse, an obs mode would kill creativity entirely. Which is the whole problem with a regularly available obs mode in this game in the first place. I think it's a great idea for monthly tournaments and special events, and that it's an obscenely poor idea otherwise.